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楼主: tyhinG_D

[提问] 请问Hotas Cougar 哪里有卖? 且2千多. 谢谢

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发表于 2008-9-13 21:17:59 | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 wowo1233 于 2008-9-13 15:08 发表
看来还是得改啊
不知道cougar world他们是不是也建议改装一下
估计到时候真换来杆子了,肯定也少不了再到TS上问饺子了
另外我赞同老千的说法,真实的杆子如果只借助液压系统控制飞机的各个 control surface的话,本 ...


恩,差不多吧。现在带电控系统的飞机力感的很少,(除了F16,其实我一直怀疑就是F16实际上也是杆位移输入)输入几乎都是接受杆位移信号的,杆位移也是经典仿真模型中最基本的输入量。因为它相对来说变化小,识别简单,涵盖完整,有利于飞控设计,也有利于飞行员的把握。所谓的“满杆”杆力实际上是一个人工的辅助回馈,主要目的是为了通过额外增加飞行员的知觉通道,使其在复杂生理感观和多变的速压条件下,可以更精准的判断和把握杆位移的状态。

也就是说任何一架电传飞控的飞机,消除杆力是很基本而且很容易的,难是难在如何更为合理的人为设置杆力梯度。

在理论层面上,X52相当于一个未设置杆力梯度的电传系统,能够很精准输入和响应杆位移信号而不带任何力回馈。
在个人喜好上,我偏好类似X52的无力回馈杆,因为我始终觉得,与其得到一个失真甚至完全错误的回馈,宁可什么回馈都不要,至少在脑中可以建立干干净净的杆位移响应的概念

[ 本帖最后由 aceforever 于 2008-9-13 21:19 编辑 ]
发表于 2008-9-13 21:19:30 | 显示全部楼层
所以干脆老美就用力感应了....满杆时最多位移4MM...几乎不动
发表于 2008-9-13 21:33:02 | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 iceviper 于 2008-9-13 21:19 发表
所以干脆老美就用力感应了....满杆时最多位移4MM...几乎不动


4MM??我估计那是杆子的挠性变性。。。。。。。。

杆位移的话,初教六那么小包线范围的飞机极限状态都能把杆抱到胸口

如果只有4MM的话,只能说老美一开始就把输入信号设计成力信号采集。一直都觉得F16这种做法打破传统,极为诡异,不知道还有没有其他飞机用这种方法

反正老毛子系都没用这种飞控

[ 本帖最后由 aceforever 于 2008-9-13 21:34 编辑 ]
发表于 2008-9-13 23:45:27 | 显示全部楼层
希望STK也能出金属的摇杆
发表于 2008-9-14 06:57:42 | 显示全部楼层
As the YF-16 progressed more and more toward an operational configuration, numerous small changes appeared in the stick and armrest/wristrest geometry. The first stick did not move at all, but rather depended strictly on the amount of force you were using to determine the desired pitch or roll rate. It was possible to fly the airplane very well with this fixed stick, but it was decided it would be still better if a small amount of motion was added. The stick still moves only three-sixteenths of an inch aft, three-thirty seconds left and right, and next to nothing forward. Although this is a very small amount, it is sufficient to give you the tactile cue of making an input. It also lets you know when you’re up against the limiter - something that was difficult to do with the old fixed stick.

Why essentially no movement forward? We found that, under negative g, you tend to move up and forward in the seat enough to increase the amount of forward stick more than you want to. As a result, it was decided to provide for minimal forward stick movement. The small amount of movement in the other axis seems to be just about the right amount. This stick movement was another area where people not completely familiar with the aircraft made a lot of erroneous inputs about how much movement was really needed. Stop and think about it. If you have much more movement in the puff direction, you quickly reach the point that you’re pushing on the bottom of the stick while pulling on the top. That assumes you have your arm on the rest and are not trying to fly the airplane by moving your whole arm. Instead, you should be using only hand or wrist movement. So, like the mistakes people made in evaluating the F-16 from an aerodynamic standpoint, people were making bogus decisions because they had not taken the time to completely understand the F-16.

发表于 2008-9-14 09:40:56 | 显示全部楼层
ROIS给的这段话很不错哈,老美果然有老美自己的考量。那上面好像也说杆位移采集适合新手适应,但是F16的力感对已经适应的人来说又有种种额外的好处~~~~
不过不知道非惯F16的人如何去适应其他杆位移机型捏~~~

对了ROIS还是不是有其他西方飞机的资料,除了F16,还有谁用这种力感思路设计飞控?

[ 本帖最后由 aceforever 于 2008-9-14 09:43 编辑 ]
发表于 2008-9-14 10:05:24 | 显示全部楼层
我是业余选手专看16的资料而已~_~
感觉22/35之流应该都是力感的吧? 胡乱猜测而已哈哈~~
发表于 2008-9-14 11:36:21 | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 rois 于 2008-9-14 10:05 发表
我是业余选手专看16的资料而已~_~
感觉22/35之流应该都是力感的吧? 胡乱猜测而已哈哈~~

你还业余??
我周围那些到现在不知道攻角为何物的魔兽兄弟怎么办。。。。。。

难不成老美真迷上力感了??估计是不想把自己的飞机让毛子的特工开走
发表于 2008-9-16 00:26:56 | 显示全部楼层
其实ROIS那文章里说的用手腕去飞才是正确的......很多人飞飞机的动作都比较粗猛,特别是杆位移采集.
我知道新飞去改空客的时候,教员都让他们用两三只手指捏住杆子飞就可以了....一把握上去动作就大了

three-sixteenths of an inch 有没有四MM?....汗....

据传很多飞16的飞行员用力感应之后开始都不太适应

不知道力感是从Block 多少开始的,ROIS应该知道吧?
发表于 2008-9-16 08:12:57 | 显示全部楼层
饺子,像你那种带改的整个HOTAS要多少米?要不要300刀?
发表于 2008-9-16 18:07:44 | 显示全部楼层
杆200USD,改件接近500USD...
发表于 2008-9-16 19:00:27 | 显示全部楼层
力感好像是从一开始就……
发表于 2008-9-16 19:46:40 | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 iceviper 于 2008-9-16 20:07 发表
杆200USD,改件接近500USD...

我靠,估计像我这样,要是用了改件也不知道和不改有什么区别的话,还不如不改
这价钱有点出乎我意料,还是想问下饺子,
用cougar的,大多数都改吗??还是只改一样东西??
而且coungar world他们自己是建议客户改还是不改,怎么不把东西一做好就可以舒舒服服的用呢??!想不懂~

[ 本帖最后由 wowo1233 于 2008-9-16 23:56 编辑 ]
发表于 2008-9-16 20:53:22 | 显示全部楼层
同980。。。另外饺子说的那种磨损的情况是在每天大概玩多少个小时的情况下才会体现得比较明显?
发表于 2008-9-16 23:34:06 | 显示全部楼层
区别还是很大的,首先是杆力,改过之后杆力变的很合适,不像没改之前那么硬.
其次,改之前,Cougar的X轴和Y轴之间,有非常清晰杆力区别,不会发生做正筋斗时不小心带个滚转出来,两个轴很清晰.改过之后,这种感觉消失,但是在精细操作方面,改过之后的Cougar是有优势的..还有就是磨损问题,这个问题我不能回答 ,因为我没到磨损的时候就改了....

Cougar的硬件Mod其实还有很多,都是为了用户不同的需求而改装的.......不是必须要改..还是自己感觉好就OK...
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